- Must visit
Swiss Museum of Transport
Switzerland’s most visited museum, covering rail, road, aviation, space, and communication with large interactive exhibits. A top choice for families and transport enthusiasts.
Cheapest price
$32
Average price
$40
Fastest journey
1 h 1 m
Average duration
1 h 1 m
Trains per day
30
Distance
66 km
The best way to find a cheap train ticket from Bern to Lucerne is to book your journey as far in advance as possible and to avoid traveling at rush hour.
The average ticket from Bern to Lucerne will cost around $40 if you buy it on the day, but the cheapest tickets can be found for only $32.
Of the 30 trains that leave Bern for Lucerne on Sat, Jun 20, 12 travel direct so it’s quite easy to avoid journeys where you’ll have to change along the way.
On Sat, Jun 20 the direct trains cover the 66 km distance in an average of 1 h 1 m but if you time it right, some trains will get you there in just 1 h 1 m .
On Sat, Jun 20 the slowest trains will take 1 h 1 m and usually involve a change or two along the way, but you might be able to save a few pennies if you’re on a budget.
RE 7 4369 | 4369
RE 7 4383 | 4383
IC 6 610 | 610 · RE 24 4715 | 4715
IR 35 2383 | 2383 · IC 21 687 | 687
IR 16 2185 | 2185 · RE 24 4735 | 4735
IR 15 2511 | 2511
IC 1455 | 1455
IR 15 2513 | 2513
IR 15 2515 | 2515
IR 15 2517 | 2517Omio recommends booking the train as it is the most popular option from Bern to Lucerne among Omio's users. If you are prioritising price take the train with prices starting from $30. For those with little time consider booking a train which can get you there in 1h 9m. In case you are seeking to minimise your carbon footprint the train is your best bet as it emits only 0.0 - 0.1kg. The ticket price range depends on the travel mode: a train costs an average of $30, and a train costs an average of $30.
Distance: 41 miles (66 km)
Most popular Train | Driving |
|---|---|
$40 Average price Cheapest | $72 Average price (fuel + tolls) |
1h 39m Average total duration Fastest 1h 9m Onboard + 30m Additional time* | 1h 17m Average total duration (door-to-door) |
0.0 - 0.1kg CO2 emissions Lowest | - CO2 emissions |
![]() Most popular train company | Your own car or car rental |
Direct Options | Direct Options |
Additional time: Average total travel duration to departure point, security checks and transfers.
Other travel options to Lucerne take longer:
Bus takes on average 1h 14m.
The journey is about 8m faster (1h 9m by train vs 1h 17m by car) and roughly $31 (€26) cheaper once you factor in fuel and tolls ($40 (€33) vs $72 (€59)). You'll also arrive in the city centre rather than hunting for parking, and you can work, read, or watch the landscape go by instead of concentrating on the road.
Direct services run with SBB, Swiss Federal Railways (SBB CFF FFS).
Driving is still worth considering if you want to stop along the way or need a car once you arrive.
The table below shows live departures for Bern to Lucerne trains for today, Friday, June 19. You can also manually refresh the results below to see updated train journeys.
| Provider | Departs | Duration | Arrives | Transfers | Tickets |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
IR 15 2507 | 2507 | 7:00 AM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h01 | 8:01 AM Lucerne station | 0 transfersDirect | |
ICE 374 | 374 · IR 27 2461 | 2461 | 7:04 AM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h26 | 8:30 AM Lucerne station | 1 transfer | |
ICE 374 | 374 · S 29 8924 | 8924 · S 1 21124 | 21124 | 7:04 AM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h41 | 8:45 AM Lucerne station | 2 transfers | |
IC 61 608 | 608 · RE 24 4713 | 4713 | 7:33 AM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h22 | 8:55 AM Lucerne station | 1 transfer | |
RE 7 4361 | 4361 | 7:36 AM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h27 | 9:03 AM Lucerne station | 0 transfersDirect | |
IR 15 2509 | 2509 | 8:00 AM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h01 | 9:01 AM Lucerne station | 0 transfersDirect | |
IC 6 960 | 960 · S 29 8928 | 8928 · S 1 21128 | 21128 | 8:04 AM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h41 | 9:45 AM Lucerne station | 2 transfers | |
IC 6 960 | 960 · IR 27 2463 | 2463 | 8:04 AM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h26 | 9:30 AM Lucerne station | 1 transfer | |
IC 6 610 | 610 · RE 24 4715 | 4715 | 8:33 AM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h22 | 9:55 AM Lucerne station | 1 transfer | |
RE 7 4363 | 4363 | 8:36 AM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h27 | 10:03 AM Lucerne station | 0 transfersDirect | |
IR 35 2363 | 2363 · IC 21 667 | 667 | 8:38 AM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h27 | 10:05 AM Lucerne station | 1 transfer | |
IR 15 2511 | 2511 | 9:00 AM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h01 | 10:01 AM Lucerne station | 0 transfersDirect | |
ICE 372 | 372 · IR 27 2465 | 2465 | 9:04 AM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h26 | 10:30 AM Lucerne station | 1 transfer | |
ICE 372 | 372 · S 29 8932 | 8932 · S 1 21132 | 21132 | 9:04 AM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h41 | 10:45 AM Lucerne station | 2 transfers | |
IC 61 612 | 612 · RE 24 4717 | 4717 | 9:33 AM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h22 | 10:55 AM Lucerne station | 1 transfer | |
RE 7 4365 | 4365 | 9:36 AM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h27 | 11:03 AM Lucerne station | 0 transfersDirect | |
IR 15 2513 | 2513 | 10:00 AM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h01 | 11:01 AM Lucerne station | 0 transfersDirect | |
IC 61 964 | 964 · S 29 8936 | 8936 · S 1 21136 | 21136 | 10:04 AM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h41 | 11:45 AM Lucerne station | 2 transfers | |
IC 61 964 | 964 · IR 27 2467 | 2467 | 10:04 AM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h26 | 11:30 AM Lucerne station | 1 transfer | |
EC 30460 | 30460 · RE 24 4719 | 4719 | 10:33 AM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h22 | 11:55 AM Lucerne station | 1 transfer | |
RE 7 4367 | 4367 | 10:36 AM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h27 | 12:03 PM Lucerne station | 0 transfersDirect | |
IR 35 2367 | 2367 · IC 21 671 | 671 | 10:38 AM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h27 | 12:05 PM Lucerne station | 1 transfer | |
IR 15 2515 | 2515 | 11:00 AM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h01 | 12:01 PM Lucerne station | 0 transfersDirect | |
IC 6 966 | 966 · S 29 8940 | 8940 · S 1 21140 | 21140 | 11:04 AM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h41 | 12:45 PM Lucerne station | 2 transfers | |
IC 6 966 | 966 · IR 27 2469 | 2469 | 11:04 AM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h26 | 12:30 PM Lucerne station | 1 transfer | |
IC 61 616 | 616 · RE 24 4721 | 4721 | 11:33 AM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h22 | 12:55 PM Lucerne station | 1 transfer | |
RE 7 4369 | 4369 | 11:36 AM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h27 | 1:03 PM Lucerne station | 0 transfersDirect | |
IR 15 2517 | 2517 | 12:00 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h01 | 1:01 PM Lucerne station | 0 transfersDirect | |
ICE 106 | 106 · S 29 8944 | 8944 · S 1 21144 | 21144 | 12:04 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h41 | 1:45 PM Lucerne station | 2 transfers | |
ICE 106 | 106 · IR 27 2471 | 2471 | 12:04 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h26 | 1:30 PM Lucerne station | 1 transfer | |
IC 6 618 | 618 · RE 24 4723 | 4723 | 12:33 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h22 | 1:55 PM Lucerne station | 1 transfer | |
RE 7 4371 | 4371 | 12:36 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h27 | 2:03 PM Lucerne station | 0 transfersDirect | |
IR 35 2371 | 2371 · IC 21 675 | 675 | 12:38 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h27 | 2:05 PM Lucerne station | 1 transfer | |
IR 15 2519 | 2519 | 1:00 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h01 | 2:01 PM Lucerne station | 0 transfersDirect | |
IC 6 970 | 970 · IR 27 2473 | 2473 | 1:04 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h26 | 2:30 PM Lucerne station | 1 transfer | |
IC 6 970 | 970 · S 29 8948 | 8948 · S 1 21148 | 21148 | 1:04 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h41 | 2:45 PM Lucerne station | 2 transfers | |
IC 61 620 | 620 · RE 24 4725 | 4725 | 1:33 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h22 | 2:55 PM Lucerne station | 1 transfer | |
RE 7 4373 | 4373 | 1:36 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h27 | 3:03 PM Lucerne station | 0 transfersDirect | |
IR 15 2521 | 2521 | 2:00 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h01 | 3:01 PM Lucerne station | 0 transfersDirect | |
IC 61 972 | 972 · IR 27 2475 | 2475 | 2:04 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h26 | 3:30 PM Lucerne station | 1 transfer | |
IC 61 972 | 972 · S 29 8952 | 8952 · S 1 21152 | 21152 | 2:04 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h41 | 3:45 PM Lucerne station | 2 transfers | |
IC 6 622 | 622 · RE 24 4727 | 4727 | 2:33 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h22 | 3:55 PM Lucerne station | 1 transfer | |
RE 7 4375 | 4375 | 2:36 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h27 | 4:03 PM Lucerne station | 0 transfersDirect | |
IR 15 2523 | 2523 | 3:00 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h01 | 4:01 PM Lucerne station | 0 transfersDirect | |
ICE 276 | 276 · IR 27 2477 | 2477 | 3:04 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h26 | 4:30 PM Lucerne station | 1 transfer | |
ICE 276 | 276 · S 29 8956 | 8956 · S 1 21156 | 21156 | 3:04 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h41 | 4:45 PM Lucerne station | 2 transfers | |
IC 61 624 | 624 · RE 24 4729 | 4729 | 3:33 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h22 | 4:55 PM Lucerne station | 1 transfer | |
RE 7 4377 | 4377 | 3:36 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h27 | 5:03 PM Lucerne station | 0 transfersDirect | |
IR 15 2525 | 2525 | 4:00 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h01 | 5:01 PM Lucerne station | 0 transfersDirect | |
IC 61 976 | 976 · S 29 8960 | 8960 · S 1 21160 | 21160 | 4:04 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h41 | 5:45 PM Lucerne station | 2 transfers | |
IC 61 976 | 976 · IR 27 2479 | 2479 | 4:04 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h26 | 5:30 PM Lucerne station | 1 transfer | |
IC 6 626 | 626 · RE 24 4731 | 4731 | 4:33 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h22 | 5:55 PM Lucerne station | 1 transfer | |
RE 7 4379 | 4379 | 4:36 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h27 | 6:03 PM Lucerne station | 0 transfersDirect | |
IR 35 2379 | 2379 · IC 21 683 | 683 | 4:38 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h27 | 6:05 PM Lucerne station | 1 transfer | |
IR 15 2527 | 2527 | 5:00 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h01 | 6:01 PM Lucerne station | 0 transfersDirect | |
IC 6 978 | 978 · IR 27 2481 | 2481 | 5:04 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h26 | 6:30 PM Lucerne station | 1 transfer | |
IC 6 978 | 978 · S 29 8964 | 8964 · S 1 21164 | 21164 | 5:04 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h41 | 6:45 PM Lucerne station | 2 transfers | |
IC 61 628 | 628 · RE 24 4733 | 4733 | 5:33 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h22 | 6:55 PM Lucerne station | 1 transfer | |
RE 7 4381 | 4381 | 5:36 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h27 | 7:03 PM Lucerne station | 0 transfersDirect | |
IR 15 2529 | 2529 | 6:00 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h01 | 7:01 PM Lucerne station | 0 transfersDirect | |
ICE 100 | 100 · IR 27 2483 | 2483 | 6:04 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h26 | 7:30 PM Lucerne station | 1 transfer | |
ICE 100 | 100 · S 29 8968 | 8968 · S 1 21168 | 21168 | 6:04 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h41 | 7:45 PM Lucerne station | 2 transfers | |
EC 30464 | 30464 · RE 24 4735 | 4735 | 6:33 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h22 | 7:55 PM Lucerne station | 1 transfer | |
RE 7 4383 | 4383 | 6:36 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h27 | 8:03 PM Lucerne station | 0 transfersDirect | |
IR 35 2383 | 2383 · IC 21 687 | 687 | 6:38 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h27 | 8:05 PM Lucerne station | 1 transfer | |
IR 15 2531 | 2531 | 7:00 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h01 | 8:01 PM Lucerne station | 0 transfersDirect | |
IC 6 982 | 982 · IR 27 2485 | 2485 | 7:04 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h26 | 8:30 PM Lucerne station | 1 transfer | |
IC 6 982 | 982 · S 29 8972 | 8972 · S 1 21172 | 21172 | 7:04 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h41 | 8:45 PM Lucerne station | 2 transfers | |
IC 61 632 | 632 · RE 24 4737 | 4737 | 7:33 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h22 | 8:55 PM Lucerne station | 1 transfer | |
RE 7 4385 | 4385 | 7:36 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h27 | 9:03 PM Lucerne station | 0 transfersDirect | |
IR 15 2533 | 2533 | 8:00 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h01 | 9:01 PM Lucerne station | 0 transfersDirect | |
IC 61 984 | 984 · IR 27 2487 | 2487 | 8:04 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h26 | 9:30 PM Lucerne station | 1 transfer | |
IC 61 984 | 984 · S 29 8976 | 8976 · S 1 21176 | 21176 | 8:04 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h41 | 9:45 PM Lucerne station | 2 transfers | |
IC 6 634 | 634 · RE 24 4739 | 4739 | 8:33 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h22 | 9:55 PM Lucerne station | 1 transfer | |
RE 7 4387 | 4387 | 8:36 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h27 | 10:03 PM Lucerne station | 0 transfersDirect | |
IR 35 2387 | 2387 · IC 21 691 | 691 | 8:38 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h27 | 10:05 PM Lucerne station | 1 transfer | |
IR 15 2535 | 2535 | 9:00 PM Bern Hauptbahnhof | 1h01 | 10:01 PM Lucerne station | 0 transfersDirect | |
This is the last train of the day. | |||||
Find all the dates and times for this journey
Compare train prices over the next three weeks. See the best deals at a glance, find the lowest fares, and choose the option that fits your budget.
Trains from Bern to Lucerne run on average 10 times per day, taking around 1h 9m. Cheap train tickets for this journey start at $30 (€24) if you book in advance.
There are 4 trains per day. The earliest train runs at 00:02, the last at 23:54. The fastest train covers the 41 miles (66 km) distance in 1h 1m.
Distance 41 miles (66 km) |
Average train duration 1h 9m |
Cheapest ticket price $30 (€24) |
Trains per day 10 |
Direct trains 4 |
Fastest train 1h 1m |
First train 12:02 AM |
Last train 11:54 PM |
Cheapest Month Jul |
Cheapest Day Sun |
High Season Jul - Sep |
Low Season Jan - Mar |
Busiest Day Tue |
Least Busy Day Fri |
Best time to book 35 days |
Discover the best of Lucerne — top attractions, local food, transport tips, budget advice, and currency essentials. Plan your perfect Lucerne trip today.
Switzerland’s most visited museum, covering rail, road, aviation, space, and communication with large interactive exhibits. A top choice for families and transport enthusiasts.
Major art museum with works by Picasso, Paul Klee, and Impressionists from the Rosengart family collection. A compact but high-quality museum in the city center.
A geological and cultural museum complex with glacial potholes, mirror maze, and exhibits on Lucerne’s natural history. One of the city’s classic attractions.
The historic core of the city, filled with painted facades, guild houses, fountains, and narrow streets. It is the best area for first-time visitors to explore on foot.
Scenic lakeside walking area with mountain views, elegant hotels, and access to boat piers. A classic place for a relaxed stroll and photography.
Busy square near the lake and Chapel Bridge, often used as a meeting point and gateway between shopping streets, the waterfront, and major sightseeing areas.
A classic Lucerne specialty of puff pastry filled with a creamy ragout, traditionally with veal, mushrooms and sometimes raisins. It is one of the city’s signature festive dishes.
A hearty Swiss Alpine dish of macaroni, potatoes, cream, cheese and onions, often served with applesauce. It is popular across Central Switzerland and common in Lucerne.
Crisp pan-fried grated potatoes, originally a Swiss farmhouse dish and now a national staple. In Lucerne it is often served as a side or topped with cheese, egg or meat.
A long-established traditional Lucerne restaurant known for classic local cuisine, especially Luzerner Chügelipastete, in a warm historic setting.
An elegant riverside restaurant with refined Swiss and seasonal cuisine, known for polished service and views over the Reuss in the old town.
A famous historic restaurant serving upscale Swiss classics in a grand traditional interior, popular for special occasions and classic hospitality.
Lucerne is costly by European standards. Hotels, dining, and transport are pricey, though bakeries, supermarkets, and lunch specials can help cut daily costs.
Service is included. Tipping is not required, but rounding up or adding CHF 5-10 for good restaurant service is appreciated. Round up taxis; small tips for hotel staff are optional.
Official public transport app
Lucerne Railway Station, Lucerne -> Lucerne Old Town, Lucerne
Find answers to the most common questions about traveling from Bern to Lucerne by train. From journey times and ticket prices to direct connections, first and last departures, and even whether the route is scenic, our FAQs cover everything you need to plan your trip. Whether you’re looking for the fastest train, the cheapest option, or tips for making the most of your visit at Lucerne, this guide helps you travel smarter and with confidence.

Most Bern to Lucerne trains use the Bern Hauptbahnhof to Luzern Bhf station pair, with some services arriving at Luzern, Bahnhof. Use this guide to compare Bern and Lucerne train stations on this route, check city-centre transport, alongside checking practicalities like train station facilities and services.
Bern Hauptbahnhof has practical services for this route, including Wifi, Lockers, Parking, Dining, ATM, Taxis, Accessibility, WC, Hotel, Lounge, Lost and Found Office, Ticket Office, Bike Parking, Car Rental, Information Desk, and Luggage Carts.
Food options include: Restaurant Lötschberg, Tibits Bern Gurtengasse
Free. ATMs are available in the train station.
Ticket office support is available at Bern Hauptbahnhof. Information desks are located in the main hall.
Luggage storage is available at Bern Hauptbahnhof. Lost and found is available at the station.
Available at Bern Hauptbahnhof: Parking, Taxis, WC.
Available at Bern Hauptbahnhof: Bike Parking, Car Rental.
Accessibility facilities are available at Bern Hauptbahnhof: Elevators, ramps.
Nearby hotels include Hotel Schweizerhof Bern & Spa, Hotel Savoy Bern, Best Western Plus Hotel Bern.
Bern Wankdorf is 2 km from Bern city centre. Public transport options include:
Bern Wankdorf has practical services for this route, including Wifi, Lockers, Parking, Dining, ATM, Taxis, Accessibility, WC, Hotel, Lost and Found Office, Ticket Office, Bike Parking, Bike Rental, Car Rental, Information Desk, and Luggage Carts.
Food options include: Restaurant Wankdorf, Pizzeria Da Vinci
Free. ATMs are available in the train station.
Ticket office support is available at Bern Wankdorf. Information desks are located in the main hall.
Luggage storage is available at Bern Wankdorf. Lost and found is available at the station.
Available at Bern Wankdorf: Parking, Taxis, WC.
Available at Bern Wankdorf: Bike Parking, Bike Rental, Car Rental.
Accessibility facilities are available at Bern Wankdorf: Ramps, restrooms.
Nearby hotels include Stay KooooK Bern Wankdorf, Novotel Bern Expo, Ibis Bern Expo.
Bern Europaplatz is 3 km from Bern city centre. Public transport options include:
Bern Europaplatz has practical services for this route, including Wifi, Lockers, Parking, Dining, ATM, Taxis, Accessibility, WC, Hotel, Lost and Found Office, Ticket Office, Bike Parking, Bike Rental, Information Desk, and Luggage Carts.
Food options include: Restaurant Rosengarten, Restaurant Marzilibrücke
Free. ATMs are available in the train station.
Ticket office support is available at Bern Europaplatz. Information desks are located in the main hall.
Luggage storage is available at Bern Europaplatz. Lost and found is available at the station.
Available at Bern Europaplatz: Parking, Taxis, WC.
Available at Bern Europaplatz: Bike Parking, Bike Rental.
Accessibility facilities are available at Bern Europaplatz: Ramps, restrooms.
Nearby hotels include Hotel Ibis Bern Expo, Hotel Savoy Bern, Hotel National Bern.
Luzern Bhf has practical services for this route, including Wifi, Lockers, Parking, Dining, ATM, Taxis, Accessibility, WC, Hotel, Lounge, Lost and Found Office, Ticket Office, Bike Parking, Bike Rental, Car Rental, Information Desk, and Luggage Carts.
Food options include: Restaurant La Cucina, Restaurant Bellini Locanda Ticinese
Free. ATMs are available in the train station.
Ticket office support is available at Luzern Bhf. Information desks are located in the main hall.
Luggage storage is available at Luzern Bhf. Lost and found is available at the station.
Available at Luzern Bhf: Parking, Taxis, WC.
Available at Luzern Bhf: Bike Parking, Bike Rental, Car Rental.
Accessibility facilities are available at Luzern Bhf.
Nearby hotels include Hotel Monopol Luzern, Waldstätterhof Swiss Quality Hotel, Hotel Central Luzern.
Luzern, Bahnhof has practical services for this route, including Accessibility.
Accessibility facilities are available at Luzern, Bahnhof.
Luzern Allmend/Messe is 1 km from Lucerne city centre. Public transport options include:
Luzern Allmend/Messe has practical services for this route, including Parking, Dining, ATM, Taxis, Accessibility, WC, Hotel, Bike Parking, Bike Rental, and Car Rental.
Food and drink options are available at Luzern Allmend/Messe.
ATMs are available at Luzern Allmend/Messe.
Available at Luzern Allmend/Messe: Parking, Taxis, WC.
Available at Luzern Allmend/Messe: Bike Parking, Bike Rental, Car Rental.
Accessibility facilities are available at Luzern Allmend/Messe.
Here are some other resources that might have the information you need