Carmel, IN to Chicago, IL bus with Greyhound

Thu, Oct 01
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Infobus
Greyhound
FlixBus
Alsa
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2,000+ travel companies
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The cheapest and fastest buses from Carmel, IN to Chicago, IL

Showing times, prices and bookable tickets for Oct 01

Cheapest price on Oct 01

$34

Average ticket price on Oct 01

$39

Fastest journey on Oct 01

3 h 15 m

Average journey duration on Oct 01

3 h 32 m

Buses on Oct 01

14

Distance

245 km

Cheap tickets

The best way to find a cheap bus ticket from Carmel, IN to Chicago, IL is to book your journey as far in advance as possible and to avoid traveling at rush hour.

The average ticket from Carmel, IN to Chicago, IL will cost around $39 if you buy it on the day, but the cheapest tickets can be found for only $34.

Fast buses

On Thu, Oct 01, we found 14 buses from Carmel, IN to Chicago, IL, including 14 direct services.

On Thu, Oct 01 the direct buses cover the 245 km distance in an average of 3 h 32 m but if you time it right, some buses will get you there in just 3 h 15 m .

On Thu, Oct 01 the slowest buses will take 3 h 40 m and usually involve a change or two along the way, but you might be able to save a few pennies if you’re on a budget.

  • Greyhound
    6:40 AM5h00
    Indianapolis, Illinois St (Greyhound Bus Station)
    10:40 AMChicago, Greyhound Bus Station
    $341One-way
    0 transfers
  • FlixBusFlixBus
    8:10 AM4h20
    Indianapolis, E Washington St / N Delaware St (City/County Building), IN
    11:30 AMChicago, Greyhound Bus Station
    $361One-way
    0 transfers
  • FlixBusFlixBus
    4:10 PM3h45
    Indianapolis, E Washington St / N Delaware St (City/County Building), IN
    6:55 PMChicago, Greyhound Bus Station
    $371One-way
    0 transfers
  • FlixBusFlixBus
    3:15 AM3h55
    Indianapolis, E Washington St / N Delaware St (City/County Building), IN
    6:10 AMChicago, Greyhound Bus Station
    $371One-way
    0 transfers
  • FlixBusFlixBus
    4:40 PM3h40
    Indianapolis, E Washington St / N Delaware St (City/County Building), IN
    7:20 PMChicago, Greyhound Bus Station
    $371One-way
    0 transfers

Carmel, IN to Chicago, IL Bus Timetables

OperatorDeparture TimeArrival TimeDurationDeparture daysCheapest price
Operator
FlixBus
Departure Time
01:35AM
Arrival Time
05:10AM
Duration
3h35
Departure days
Tue, Wed
Cheapest price
$46
Operator
FlixBus
Departure Time
02:35AM
Arrival Time
06:10AM
Duration
3h35
Departure days
Wed
Cheapest price
$35
Operator
FlixBus
Departure Time
03:15AM
Arrival Time
06:10AM
Duration
3h55
Departure days
Thu
Cheapest price
$37
Operator
Greyhound
Departure Time
05:20AM
Arrival Time
08:00AM
Duration
3h40
Departure days
Wed, Thu
Cheapest price
$41
Operator
Greyhound
Departure Time
06:40AM
Arrival Time
10:40AM
Duration
5h00
Departure days
Wed, Thu
Cheapest price
$34
Operator
FlixBus
Departure Time
07:15AM
Arrival Time
11:10AM
Duration
3h55
Departure days
Fri
Cheapest price
$77
Operator
FlixBus
Departure Time
08:10AM
Arrival Time
11:30AM
Duration
4h20
Departure days
Thu
Cheapest price
$36
Operator
FlixBus
Departure Time
08:15AM
Arrival Time
12:10PM
Duration
3h55
Departure days
Sat, Sun
Cheapest price
$44
Operator
FlixBus
Departure Time
09:30AM
Arrival Time
12:00PM
Duration
3h30
Departure days
Wed, Thu
Cheapest price
$38
Operator
Greyhound
Departure Time
10:10AM
Arrival Time
02:00PM
Duration
3h50
Departure days
Mon
Cheapest price
$35
Operator
Greyhound
Departure Time
10:25AM
Arrival Time
02:10PM
Duration
4h45
Departure days
Wed, Thu
Cheapest price
$41
Operator
Greyhound
Departure Time
10:40AM
Arrival Time
03:40PM
Duration
5h00
Departure days
Mon, Sun
Cheapest price
$53
Operator
Greyhound
Departure Time
11:40AM
Arrival Time
04:40PM
Duration
5h00
Departure days
Fri, Sat, Sun
Cheapest price
$35
Operator
Greyhound
Departure Time
12:35PM
Arrival Time
03:15PM
Duration
3h40
Departure days
Wed, Thu
Cheapest price
$36
Operator
FlixBus
Departure Time
01:30PM
Arrival Time
04:15PM
Duration
3h45
Departure days
Wed, Thu
Cheapest price
$38
Operator
FlixBus
Departure Time
04:10PM
Arrival Time
06:55PM
Duration
3h45
Departure days
Thu
Cheapest price
$37
Operator
Greyhound
Departure Time
04:35PM
Arrival Time
08:15PM
Duration
3h40
Departure days
Sat
Cheapest price
$50
Operator
FlixBus
Departure Time
04:40PM
Arrival Time
07:20PM
Duration
3h40
Departure days
Wed, Thu
Cheapest price
$37
Operator
Greyhound
Departure Time
05:35PM
Arrival Time
08:10PM
Duration
3h35
Departure days
Wed, Thu
Cheapest price
$35
Operator
FlixBus
Departure Time
08:45PM
Arrival Time
12:50AM
Duration
4h05
Departure days
Mon, Tue
Cheapest price
$46
Operator
FlixBus
Departure Time
09:55PM
Arrival Time
12:10AM
Duration
3h15
Departure days
Wed, Thu
Cheapest price
$37

Live departures

Carmel, IN to Chicago, IL bus times

The table below shows live departures for Carmel, IN to Chicago, IL buses for today, Wednesday, September 30. You can also manually refresh the results below to see updated bus journeys.

Last updated at
ProviderDepartsDurationArrivesTransfers
Tickets
Greyhound6:40 AM Indianapolis, Illinois St (Greyhound Bus Station)
5h00
10:40 AM Chicago, Greyhound Bus Station0 transfersDirect
FlixBusFlixBus9:30 AM Carmel, IN
3h30
12:00 PM Chicago, Greyhound Bus Station0 transfersDirect
Greyhound10:25 AM Indianapolis, Illinois St (Greyhound Bus Station)
4h45
2:10 PM Chicago, Greyhound Bus Station0 transfersDirect
Greyhound10:25 AM Indianapolis, Illinois St (Greyhound Bus Station)
4h20
1:45 PM Chicago, Union Station (Amtrak), IL0 transfersDirect
Greyhound12:35 PM Indianapolis, Illinois St (Greyhound Bus Station)
3h40
3:15 PM Chicago, Greyhound Bus Station0 transfersDirect
FlixBusFlixBus1:30 PM Carmel, IN
3h45
4:15 PM Chicago, Greyhound Bus Station0 transfersDirect
FlixBusFlixBus4:40 PM Carmel, IN
3h40
7:20 PM Chicago, Greyhound Bus Station0 transfersDirect
Greyhound5:35 PM Indianapolis, Illinois St (Greyhound Bus Station)
3h35
8:10 PM Chicago, Greyhound Bus Station0 transfersDirect
FlixBusFlixBus9:55 PM Carmel, IN
3h15
12:10 AM Chicago, Greyhound Bus Station0 transfersDirect
Thursday, October 1
FlixBusFlixBus3:15 AM Indianapolis, E Washington St / N Delaware St (City/County Building), IN
3h55
6:10 AM Chicago, Greyhound Bus Station0 transfersDirect
Greyhound5:20 AM Indianapolis, Illinois St (Greyhound Bus Station)
3h40
8:00 AM Chicago, Union Station (Amtrak), IL0 transfersDirect
Greyhound5:20 AM Indianapolis, Illinois St (Greyhound Bus Station)
4h05
8:25 AM Chicago, Greyhound Bus Station0 transfersDirect

This is the last bus of the day.

Find all the dates and times for this journey

Compare prices and tickets Carmel, IN to Chicago, IL by bus or flight

Compare bus and flight prices over the next three weeks. See the best deals at a glance, find the lowest fares, and choose the option that fits your budget.

Thu
Oct 01
Fri
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Sat
Oct 03
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Oct 04
Mon
Oct 05
Tue
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Oct 07

Why should you book Carmel, IN to Chicago, IL buses with Omio?

Infobus as well as Greyhound or FlixBus offer buses services from Carmel, IN to Chicago, IL.
Omio is the only official third party seller for Infobus tickets.

Why book with Omio vs Infobus?

  • Compare with other providers: On Omio, you can not only buy tickets for Infobus, but also compare tickets for the likes of Greyhound or FlixBus to find the best option for your trip from Carmel, IN to Chicago, IL.
  • Designed for International Travelers: Omio is in your language including 24/7 customer service and offers multiple payment options, including PayPal, credit cards, and bank transfer, in your preferred currency.
  • Compare all your options: Omio allows you to compare Infobus with all available travel options, which are bus and flight to ensure you get the best deal for traveling from Carmel, IN to Chicago, IL.

Why book with Omio over Busbud or Checkmybus?

  • Official reseller: Infobus tickets can only be bought on Omio or Infobus's website as Omio is the only official third party seller for Infobus tickets. Busbud or Checkmybus do not sell Infobus tickets as they are not official sellers.
  • Multiple modes of transport: Omio allows you to compare travel options including bus and flight to find the ideal travel option from Carmel, IN to Chicago, IL.

Journey information

Overview: Bus from Carmel, IN to Chicago, IL

USAUSA
USAUSA
Icon of bus

Buses from Carmel, IN to Chicago, IL run on average 12 times per day, taking around 4h 5m. Cheap bus tickets for this journey start at $40 (€33) if you book in advance.

There are 12 buses per day. The earliest bus runs at 03:15, the last at 23:10. The fastest bus covers the 152 miles (245 km) distance in 3h 15m.

Fares are the lowest economy prices found on Omio. Early booking often means lower prices. Prices change daily and are subject to availability. Discount cards, coach trips, and booking fees are not included.
Price information
Distance
152 miles (245 km)
Average bus duration
4h 5m
Cheapest ticket price
$40 (€33)
Buses per day
12
Direct buses
12
Fastest bus
3h 15m
First bus
3:15 AM
Last bus
11:10 PM
Cheapest Month
Aug
Cheapest Day
Wed
High Season
Oct - Dec
Low Season
Jan - Mar
Busiest Day
Wed
Least Busy Day
Wed
Best time to book
28 days
Fares are the lowest economy prices found on Omio. Early booking often means lower prices. Prices change daily and are subject to availability. Discount cards, coach trips, and booking fees are not included.
Price information

Bus providers: Greyhound, FlixBus, Infobus from Carmel, IN to Chicago, ILYou can travel by bus between Carmel, IN to Chicago, IL with Greyhound, FlixBus, Infobus for as low as $40 (€33). When you search for schedules and tickets, Omio will show you the best journey

FlixBus

About
FlixBus is one of Europe’s leading low-cost bus companies, founded in Germany and now offering long-distance services across Europe and the United States. In addition to its extensive daytime network, FlixBus also operates overnight buses on select European routes. Standard amenities include free Wi-Fi, power outlets to charge devices, extra legroom, luggage space, and onboard toilets, with snacks and drinks available for purchase. FlixBus offers a single Standard ticket type for all routes, which includes one carry-on bag and one checked bag per passenger. Additional fees apply for extra luggage and for reserving specific seats, such as Extra Seats, Table Seats, or Panorama Seats. This combination of affordability, comfort, and wide coverage makes FlixBus a popular choice for budget-conscious travelers.
Luggage & cancellation policy
Average FlixBus Duration
3h 15m
Cheapest FlixBus Price
$40 (€33)
FlixBus frequency
8 a day
Luggage included
One carry-on bag up to 7kg (42x30x18 cm) and one checked bag up to 20kg (80x50x30 cm).
Additional luggage
Additional luggage can be purchased for a fee.
Cancellation Policy
You can cancel your ticket up to 15 minutes before departure and receive a voucher for future travel. Refund requests for delays over 120 minutes are possible.
Amenities on board the bus
Wifi
Food sold onboard
Seat reservation
Toilets
USB plugs
Accessibility
Assistance; Priority boarding; Wheelchair-accessible buses.
Bikes
Bikes are allowed for a fee; must be booked.
Pets
Small pets in carriers allowed; guide dogs travel for free.

Infobus

About
Infobus is an international IT company that operates as an online service for finding and purchasing bus, train, and plane tickets, rather than being a bus company itself. Established in 2002, Infobus acts as an intermediary between passengers and various transport carriers, particularly helping smaller bus companies offer online booking services. They utilize their own "BusSystem" to manage routes and ticket sales globally. Infobus covers over 30 countries and 300 cities, offering a wide range of routes and daily departures. While amenities can vary by carrier, Infobus aims to provide affordable and convenient travel with features like online booking, 24/7 support, and prompt notifications.
Luggage & cancellation policy
Average Infobus Duration
4h 25m
Cheapest Infobus Price
$176 (€146)
Infobus frequency
1 a day
Luggage included
One carry-on bag up to 5kg (40x20x25) and one checked bag up to 20kg (50x30x80).
Additional luggage
10€ per additional bag.
Cancellation Policy
You can cancel your ticket up to 24 hours before departure for a partial refund. Cancellations within 24 hours may incur a fee.
Amenities on board the bus
Wifi
Food sold onboard
Seat reservation
Toilets
USB plugs
Accessibility
Assistance; Priority seating; Transport for wheelchairs and mobility aids.
Bikes
Bikes are allowed; may require prior reservation and an additional fee.
Pets
Small pets allowed in carriers; larger pets may require a separate ticket.

Greyhound

About
Greyhound Lines, Inc. is a prominent American intercity bus transportation provider, established in 1914. It operates the largest intercity bus network in the United States, also extending services to Canada and Mexico. Greyhound is known for offering affordable and reliable long-distance travel, connecting major cities and rural communities across North America. The company's buses are equipped with amenities such as free Wi-Fi, power outlets, and extra legroom to enhance passenger comfort. Greyhound is a subsidiary of Flix SE, which also owns FlixBus, and together they offer an extensive network of over 1,600 destinations.
Luggage & cancellation policy
Average Greyhound Duration
3h 35m
Cheapest Greyhound Price
$40 (€33)
Greyhound frequency
8 a day
Luggage included
One carry-on bag up to 25 lbs (11 kg) and one checked bag up to 50 lbs (23 kg).
Additional luggage
$15 per additional bag.
Cancellation Policy
You can cancel your ticket for a refund or exchange up to 24 hours before departure, for a cancellation fee applied.
Amenities on board the bus
Wifi
Food sold onboard
Seat reservation
Toilets
USB plugs
Accessibility
Assistance; Priority seating; Wheelchair-accessible buses.
Bikes
Bikes are allowed.

Complete guide to Chicago, IL

Things to do in Chicago, IL

Discover the best of Chicago, IL — top attractions, local food, transport tips, budget advice, and currency essentials. Plan your perfect Chicago, IL trip today.

  • Must visit

Art Institute of Chicago

World-class art museum with masterpieces from Monet to Hopper and the famous Modern Wing.

  • Must visit

Field Museum

Major natural history museum with Sue the T. rex, ancient cultures, and strong family appeal.

  • Must visit

Museum of Science and Industry

Hands-on science museum in a grand former fair building, popular for exhibits and a U-505 submarine.

US dollar ($)

Moderate for a major US city: hotels can be pricey, but transit is affordable and dining ranges from cheap eats to upscale options.

Average meal costs

Budget
$10-18 for fast food or casual takeout.
Mid-range
$20-40 per person for a restaurant meal.
Fine dining
$75+ per person for upscale restaurants.
Coffee
$3-6 for coffee or cappuccino.

Tipping culture

Tip 18-20% at restaurants, $1-2 per drink at bars, 10-15% for taxis, and optional small change at cafes.

FAQs: Bus from Carmel, IN to Chicago, IL

Find answers to the most common questions about traveling from Carmel, IN to Chicago, IL by bus. From journey times and ticket prices to direct connections, first and last departures, and even whether the route is scenic, our FAQs cover everything you need to plan your trip. Whether you’re looking for the fastest bus, the cheapest option, or tips for making the most of your visit at Chicago, IL, this guide helps you travel smarter and with confidence.

FAQs
Cheap bus tickets from Carmel, IN to Chicago, IL can start from as little as $40 (€33) when you book in advance. The average bus ticket price for Carmel, IN to Chicago, IL is $61 (€51) ; however, prices vary depending on the time of day and class and they tend to be more expensive on the day.
The average journey time by bus from Carmel, IN to Chicago, IL is 3h 15m to travel the 152 miles (245 km) long journey. Journey times can vary on weekends and holidays, so use our Journey Planner to search for a specific date.
The earliest bus from Carmel, IN to Chicago, IL leaves at 3:15 AM. Plan your trip with the Journey Planner from Omio.
The latest bus from Carmel, IN to Chicago, IL leaves at 11:10 PM.
Yes, there are 12 direct buses a day from Carmel, IN to Chicago, IL with Infobus, Greyhound, FlixBus. Schedules can vary on holidays or weekends with fewer direct buses.
When taking a bus from Carmel, IN to Chicago, IL, you can count on Infobus, Greyhound, FlixBus for the best way to get you to Chicago, IL. You can also check all possible bus companies who offer a service between Carmel, IN and Chicago, IL and compare the amenities they offer before buying a bus ticket.
When departing from Carmel, IN , you have various bus station options to start your journey from including Indianapolis, Illinois St (Greyhound Bus Station) . When arriving in Chicago, IL , you can end your journey in bus stations like Chicago, Greyhound Bus Station, Chicago, Union Station (Amtrak), IL .Passengers board the bus most frequently from Indianapolis, Illinois St (Greyhound Bus Station), which is located around away from the city centre, and they get off the bus at Chicago, Greyhound Bus Station, located 2 away from the city centre.
It's helpful to compare your options as there are 2 ways to travel between Carmel, IN and Chicago, IL including taking a bus and flight.
Yes, the following accessibility options are available when taking the bus from Carmel, IN to Chicago, IL:
  • Infobus
    • Assistance
    • Priority seating
    • Transport for wheelchairs and mobility aids.
  • Greyhound
    • Assistance
    • Priority seating
    • Wheelchair-accessible buses.
  • FlixBus
    • Assistance
    • Priority boarding
    • Wheelchair-accessible buses.
Yes, there are bathrooms on board the bus from Carmel, IN to Chicago, IL for bus company Infobus, Greyhound, FlixBus.
Whether you can cancel your bus ticket from Carmel, IN to Chicago, IL depends on the bus companies:
  • Infobus
    • You can cancel your ticket up to 24 hours before departure for a partial refund. Cancellations within 24 hours may incur a fee.
  • Greyhound
    • You can cancel your ticket for a refund or exchange up to 24 hours before departure, for a cancellation fee applied.
  • FlixBus
    • You can cancel your ticket up to 15 minutes before departure and receive a voucher for future travel. Refund requests for delays over 120 minutes are possible.
Yes, bikes are allowed on board the bus with bus company Infobus, Greyhound, FlixBus.
Tickets are often cheaper when booked early. Traveling during off-peak hours or on weekdays can help you save money. Sort results by price to quickly identify the most affordable options. Check for promotions or discounts available on our website and app.
Yes, there is food available to purchase on board the bus from Carmel, IN to Chicago, IL.
Yes, the following luggage options are included when booking a bus ticket from Carmel, IN to Chicago, IL:
  • Infobus
    • One carry-on bag up to 5kg (40x20x25) and one checked bag up to 20kg (50x30x80).
  • Greyhound
    • One carry-on bag up to 25 lbs (11 kg) and one checked bag up to 50 lbs (23 kg).
  • FlixBus
    • One carry-on bag up to 7kg (42x30x18 cm) and one checked bag up to 20kg (80x50x30 cm).
Yes, the following additional luggage options are available when booking a bus ticket from Carmel, IN to Chicago, IL:
  • Infobus
    • 10€ per additional bag.
  • Greyhound
    • $15 per additional bag.
  • FlixBus
    • Additional luggage can be purchased for a fee.
Yes, you can bring your pet on the bus from Carmel, IN to Chicago, IL. The following conditions apply:
  • Infobus
    • Small pets allowed in carriers
    • larger pets may require a separate ticket.
  • FlixBus
    • Small pets in carriers allowed
    • guide dogs travel for free.
You can reserve your seat on the bus from Carmel, IN to Chicago, IL with the following bus company: Infobus, Greyhound, FlixBus
Yes, there are USB plugs on board the bus from Carmel, IN to Chicago, IL with the following bus company: Infobus, Greyhound, FlixBus.
Yes, there is Wifi on board the bus from Carmel, IN to Chicago, IL with the following bus company: Infobus, Greyhound, FlixBus.
The currency used in the United States is the US Dollar (USD). For travelers, using cards is generally more convenient and widely accepted, especially credit and debit cards, while cash is useful for small purchases or places that do not accept cards.
In Chicago, IL, travelers should be cautious of pickpocketing and purse snatching, especially in crowded areas like public transit and popular tourist spots. Common scams include fake charity solicitations and distraction thefts. It is advisable to stay alert in neighborhoods outside downtown after dark and use authorized transportation services to avoid unlicensed taxi scams. Keeping valuables secure and being aware of surroundings helps mitigate these risks.
Pack lightweight, versatile clothing suitable for the destination's climate, and use secure, lockable luggage to protect belongings. Keep essential items like travel documents, medication, and valuables in a carry-on bag for easy access. Use packing organizers or cubes to maximize space and maintain order. Lastly, include a small first aid kit and personal hygiene items for added comfort during travel.

popular bus stations

Popular bus stations from Carmel, IN to Chicago, IL

Most Carmel, IN to Chicago, IL buses use the Indianapolis, Illinois St (Greyhound Bus Station) to Chicago, Greyhound Bus Station station pair, with some services arriving at Chicago, Union Station (Amtrak). Use this guide to compare Carmel, IN and Chicago, IL bus stations on this route, check city-centre transport, alongside checking practicalities like bus station facilities and services.

Departure bus stations in Carmel
Arrival bus stations in Chicago

Which Chicago, IL station do buses from Carmel, IN arrive at?

Buses from Carmel, IN to Chicago, IL most often arrive at Chicago, Greyhound Bus Station. Some services arrive at Chicago, Union Station (Amtrak), so check your ticket before travel to confirm your Chicago, IL arrival station.
Chicago, Greyhound Bus Station630 W Harrison St, Chicago, IL 60607, USAWifiParkingDiningATMTaxisAccessibilityWCShowerTicket Office
City-centre transport

Getting to Chicago, Greyhound Bus Station from Chicago city centre

Chicago, Greyhound Bus Station is 2 km from Chicago city centre. Public transport options include:

Bus7 · 8m · $4 · every ~6 min

Chicago, Greyhound Bus Station bus station facilities and services

Chicago, Greyhound Bus Station has practical services for this route, including Wifi, Parking, Dining, ATM, Taxis, Accessibility, WC, Shower, and Ticket Office.

Food and drink

Food options include: Snack shop and vending machines available

Wi-Fi and ATMs

Free Wi-Fi in waiting area. ATMs are located near entrance.

Tickets and information

Ticket office support is available at Chicago, Greyhound Bus Station.

Parking, taxis and toilets

Available at Chicago, Greyhound Bus Station: Parking, Taxis, WC.

Accessibility

Accessibility facilities are available at Chicago, Greyhound Bus Station: Wheelchair accessible entrances and seating.

Chicago, Union Station (Amtrak)Chicago Union Station, 225 S Canal St, Chicago, IL 60606, USAWifiParkingDiningATMTaxisAccessibilityWCShowerTicket Office
City-centre transport

Getting to Chicago, Union Station (Amtrak) from Chicago city centre

Chicago, Union Station (Amtrak) is 3 km from Chicago city centre. Public transport options include:

Bus28, 151 · 7m · $4 · every ~13 min

Chicago, Union Station (Amtrak) bus station facilities and services

Chicago, Union Station (Amtrak) has practical services for this route, including Wifi, Parking, Dining, ATM, Taxis, Accessibility, WC, Shower, and Ticket Office.

Food and drink

Food options include: Multiple dining options are available inside the station.

Wi-Fi and ATMs

Free Wi-Fi is available in waiting areas. ATMs are aTMs are located near the main entrance.

Tickets and information

Ticket office support is available at Chicago, Union Station (Amtrak).

Parking, taxis and toilets

Available at Chicago, Union Station (Amtrak): Parking, Taxis, WC.

Accessibility

Accessibility facilities are available at Chicago, Union Station (Amtrak): Station is accessible with elevators and ramps.

More options for your journey from Carmel, IN to Chicago, IL

Here are some other resources that might have the information you need

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