The cheapest and fastest trains from Bergamo to Orvieto
Cheapest price
$56
Average price
$99
Fastest journey
5 h 24 m
Average duration
5 h 25 m
Trains per day
76
Distance
384 km
The best way to find a cheap train ticket from Bergamo to Orvieto is to book your journey as far in advance as possible and to avoid traveling at rush hour.
The average ticket from Bergamo to Orvieto will cost around $99 if you buy it on the day, but the cheapest tickets can be found for only $56.
It's difficult to get from Bergamo to Orvieto without transferring at least 2 times.
Regionale TRENORD 10501 · Regionale 18515 · Regionale Veloce 41076:43 AM10h45Bergamo station5:28 PMOrvieto station$561One-way2 transfers
Regionale TRENORD 22674 · Regionale TRENORD 2641+
InterCityNotte 7638:18 PM8h50Bergamo station5:08 AMOrvieto station$621One-way2 transfers
Regionale TRENORD 10117 · OROBICA LINE TTPER 18125+
Intercity 5847:06 AM7h05Bergamo station2:11 PMOrvieto station$681One-way2 transfers
Regionale TRENORD 22646 · Regionale TRENORD 2630+
9951+
Regionale Veloce 41111:18 PM8h10Bergamo station9:28 PMOrvieto station$991One-way3 transfers
Regionale TRENORD 22626 · Regionale TRENORD 2620+
9935+
Regionale Veloce 41078:18 AM9h10Bergamo station5:28 PMOrvieto station$991One-way3 transfers
Regionale TRENORD 2218+
FRECCIAROSSA 9583+
Regionale Veloce 41038:02 AM5h24Bergamo station1:26 PMOrvieto station$1271One-way2 transfers
Regionale TRENORD 2222+
FRECCIAROSSA 9587+
Regionale Veloce 410510:02 AM5h24Bergamo station3:26 PMOrvieto station$1111One-way2 transfers
Regionale TRENORD 2238+
FRECCIAROSSA 9563+
Regionale 41136:02 PM5h25Bergamo station11:27 PMOrvieto station$1041One-way2 transfers
Regionale TRENORD 2234+
FRECCIAROSSA 9555+
Regionale Veloce 41114:02 PM5h26Bergamo station9:28 PMOrvieto station$1041One-way2 transfers
Regionale TRENORD 2226+
FRECCIAROSSA 9539+
Regionale Veloce 410712:02 PM5h26Bergamo station5:28 PMOrvieto station$1041One-way2 transfers
Travel Information
Compare train, bus, and flight for Bergamo to Orvieto
Omio recommends booking the train as it is the most popular option from Bergamo to Orvieto among Omio's users. If you are prioritising price take the train with prices starting from $29. For those with little time consider booking a flight which can get you there in 1h 14m. The ticket price range depends on the travel mode: a train costs an average of $29, and a flight costs an average of $56.
Distance: 238 miles (384 km)
Compare train with
Most popular Train | Flight | Bus | Driving |
|---|---|---|---|
$50 Average price Cheapest | $97 Average price | $60 Average price | $96 Average price (fuel + tolls) |
5h 16m Average total duration 4h 46m Onboard + 30m Additional time* | 4h 14m Average total duration Fastest 1h 14m Onboard + 3h 0m Additional time* | 16h 5m Average total duration 15h 35m Onboard + 30m Additional time* | 5h 6m Average total duration (door-to-door) |
Direct Options | Direct Options | Direct Options | Direct Options |
This is compared to other travel options from Bergamo to Orvieto:
A train is $10 (€8) less than a bus for this route with tickets for a bus from Bergamo to Orvieto costing on average $60 (€49).
A train is $47 (€39) less than a flight for this route with tickets for a flight from Bergamo to Orvieto costing on average $97 (€80).
Other travel options to Orvieto take longer:
Train takes on average 4h 46m.
Bus takes on average 15h 35m.
The journey is about 20m faster (4h 46m by train vs 5h 6m by car) and roughly $46 (€38) cheaper once you factor in fuel and tolls ($50 (€41) vs $96 (€79)). You'll also arrive in the city centre rather than hunting for parking, and you can work, read, or watch the landscape go by instead of concentrating on the road.
Driving is still worth considering if you want to stop along the way or need a car once you arrive.
Live departures
Bergamo to Orvieto train times
The table below shows live departures for Bergamo to Orvieto trains for tomorrow, Saturday, June 20. You can also manually refresh the results below to see updated train journeys.
| Provider | Departs | Duration | Arrives | Transfers | Tickets |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Regionale TRENORD 2212+ 9919+ Regionale Veloce 4103 | 5:00 AM Bergamo station | 8h26 | 1:26 PM Orvieto station | 2 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 2212+ 8111+ Regionale Veloce 4101 | 5:00 AM Bergamo station | 6h19 | 11:19 AM Orvieto station | 2 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 2212+ 8111+ Regionale Veloce 4103 | 5:00 AM Bergamo station | 8h26 | 1:26 PM Orvieto station | 2 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 2212+ FRECCIAROSSA 9511+ Regionale Veloce 4101 | 5:00 AM Bergamo station | 6h19 | 11:19 AM Orvieto station | 2 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 2214+ 9917+ Regionale Veloce 4103 | 6:02 AM Bergamo station | 7h24 | 1:26 PM Orvieto station | 2 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 2214+ 9927+ Regionale Veloce 4105 | 6:02 AM Bergamo station | 9h24 | 3:26 PM Orvieto station | 2 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 2214+ 9919+ Regionale Veloce 4103 | 6:02 AM Bergamo station | 7h24 | 1:26 PM Orvieto station | 2 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 22618 · Regionale TRENORD 2616+ 9919+ Regionale Veloce 4103 | 6:18 AM Bergamo station | 7h08 | 1:26 PM Orvieto station | 3 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 22618 · Regionale TRENORD 2616+ 9927+ Regionale Veloce 4105 | 6:18 AM Bergamo station | 9h08 | 3:26 PM Orvieto station | 3 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 22618 · Regionale TRENORD 2616+ 9919+ Regionale Veloce 4105 | 6:18 AM Bergamo station | 9h08 | 3:26 PM Orvieto station | 3 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 10501 · Regionale 18515 · Regionale Veloce 4107 | 6:43 AM Bergamo station | 10h45 | 5:28 PM Orvieto station | 2 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 2216+ 9919+ Regionale Veloce 4103 | 7:02 AM Bergamo station | 6h24 | 1:26 PM Orvieto station | 2 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 2216+ 9927+ Regionale Veloce 4105 | 7:02 AM Bergamo station | 8h24 | 3:26 PM Orvieto station | 2 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 2216+ 9919+ Regionale Veloce 4105 | 7:02 AM Bergamo station | 8h24 | 3:26 PM Orvieto station | 2 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 10117 · OROBICA LINE TTPER 18125+ Intercity 584 | 7:06 AM Bergamo station | 7h05 | 2:11 PM Orvieto station | 2 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 22622 · Regionale TRENORD 2618+ 9935+ Regionale Veloce 4107 | 7:18 AM Bergamo station | 10h10 | 5:28 PM Orvieto station | 3 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 22622 · Regionale TRENORD 2618+ 9923+ Regionale Veloce 4105 | 7:18 AM Bergamo station | 8h08 | 3:26 PM Orvieto station | 3 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 22622 · Regionale TRENORD 2618 · Regionale Veloce 4105+ 9927 | 7:18 AM Bergamo station | 8h08 | 3:26 PM Orvieto station | 3 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 2218+ FRECCIAROSSA 9583+ Regionale Veloce 4103 | 8:02 AM Bergamo station | 5h24 | 1:26 PM Orvieto station | 2 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 2218+ 9927+ Regionale Veloce 4105 | 8:02 AM Bergamo station | 7h24 | 3:26 PM Orvieto station | 2 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 2218+ 9923+ Regionale Veloce 4105 | 8:02 AM Bergamo station | 7h24 | 3:26 PM Orvieto station | 2 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 2218 · Regionale Veloce 4107+ 9927 | 8:02 AM Bergamo station | 9h26 | 5:28 PM Orvieto station | 2 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 22626 · Regionale TRENORD 2620+ 9931+ Regionale Veloce 4107 | 8:18 AM Bergamo station | 9h10 | 5:28 PM Orvieto station | 3 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 22626 · Regionale TRENORD 2620 · Regionale Veloce 4107+ 9935 | On time 8:18 AM Bergamo station | 9h10 | 5:28 PM Orvieto station | 3 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 22626 · Regionale TRENORD 2620+ 9927+ Regionale Veloce 4105 | 8:18 AM Bergamo station | 7h08 | 3:26 PM Orvieto station | 3 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 2220+ 9931+ Regionale Veloce 4107 | 9:02 AM Bergamo station | 8h26 | 5:28 PM Orvieto station | 2 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 2220+ 9927+ Regionale Veloce 4107 | 9:02 AM Bergamo station | 8h26 | 5:28 PM Orvieto station | 2 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 2220+ 9927+ Regionale Veloce 4105 | 9:02 AM Bergamo station | 6h24 | 3:26 PM Orvieto station | 2 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 22630 · Regionale TRENORD 2622+ 9935+ Regionale Veloce 4107 | 9:18 AM Bergamo station | 8h10 | 5:28 PM Orvieto station | 3 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 22630 · Regionale TRENORD 2622+ 9951+ Regionale Veloce 4111 | 9:18 AM Bergamo station | 12h10 | 9:28 PM Orvieto station | 3 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 22630 · Regionale TRENORD 2622+ 9931+ Regionale Veloce 4107 | 9:18 AM Bergamo station | 8h10 | 5:28 PM Orvieto station | 3 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 2222+ 9935+ Regionale Veloce 4107 | 10:02 AM Bergamo station | 7h26 | 5:28 PM Orvieto station | 2 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 2222+ FRECCIAROSSA 9587+ Regionale Veloce 4105 | 10:02 AM Bergamo station | 5h24 | 3:26 PM Orvieto station | 2 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 2222+ 9931+ Regionale Veloce 4107 | 10:02 AM Bergamo station | 7h26 | 5:28 PM Orvieto station | 2 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 2222+ 8143+ Regionale Veloce 4111 | 10:02 AM Bergamo station | 11h26 | 9:28 PM Orvieto station | 2 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 22634 · Regionale TRENORD 2624+ 9951+ Regionale Veloce 4111 | 10:18 AM Bergamo station | 11h10 | 9:28 PM Orvieto station | 3 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 22634 · Regionale TRENORD 2624+ 9935+ Regionale Veloce 4111 | 10:18 AM Bergamo station | 11h10 | 9:28 PM Orvieto station | 3 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 22634 · Regionale TRENORD 2624+ 9935+ Regionale Veloce 4107 | 10:18 AM Bergamo station | 7h10 | 5:28 PM Orvieto station | 3 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 2224+ 9951+ Regionale Veloce 4111 | 11:02 AM Bergamo station | 10h26 | 9:28 PM Orvieto station | 2 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 2224+ 9935+ Regionale Veloce 4111 | 11:02 AM Bergamo station | 10h26 | 9:28 PM Orvieto station | 2 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 2224 · Regionale Veloce 4107+ 9935 | On time 11:02 AM Bergamo station | 6h26 | 5:28 PM Orvieto station | 2 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 22638 · Regionale TRENORD 2626+ 9947+ Regionale Veloce 4111 | 11:18 AM Bergamo station | 10h10 | 9:28 PM Orvieto station | 3 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 22638 · Regionale TRENORD 2626+ 9951+ Regionale Veloce 4111 | 11:18 AM Bergamo station | 10h10 | 9:28 PM Orvieto station | 3 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 22638 · Regionale TRENORD 2626+ 8143+ Regionale Veloce 4111 | 11:18 AM Bergamo station | 10h10 | 9:28 PM Orvieto station | 3 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 2226+ FRECCIAROSSA 9539+ Regionale Veloce 4107 | 12:02 PM Bergamo station | 5h26 | 5:28 PM Orvieto station | 2 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 2226+ 8143+ Regionale Veloce 4111 | 12:02 PM Bergamo station | 9h26 | 9:28 PM Orvieto station | 2 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 2226+ 9951+ Regionale Veloce 4111 | 12:02 PM Bergamo station | 9h26 | 9:28 PM Orvieto station | 2 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 2226 · Regionale Veloce 4111+ 9947 | On time 12:02 PM Bergamo station | 9h26 | 9:28 PM Orvieto station | 2 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 22642 · Regionale TRENORD 2628+ 8143+ Regionale Veloce 4111 | 12:18 PM Bergamo station | 9h10 | 9:28 PM Orvieto station | 3 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 22642 · Regionale TRENORD 2628+ 9947+ Regionale Veloce 4111 | 12:18 PM Bergamo station | 9h10 | 9:28 PM Orvieto station | 3 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 22642 · Regionale TRENORD 2628+ 9951+ Regionale Veloce 4111 | 12:18 PM Bergamo station | 9h10 | 9:28 PM Orvieto station | 3 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 2228+ 9947+ Regionale Veloce 4111 | 1:02 PM Bergamo station | 8h26 | 9:28 PM Orvieto station | 2 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 2228 · Regionale Veloce 4111+ 8143 | 1:02 PM Bergamo station | 8h26 | 9:28 PM Orvieto station | 2 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 2228 · Regionale Veloce 4111+ 9951 | On time 1:02 PM Bergamo station | 8h26 | 9:28 PM Orvieto station | 2 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 22646 · Regionale TRENORD 2630 · Regionale Veloce 4111+ 9951 | On time 1:18 PM Bergamo station | 8h10 | 9:28 PM Orvieto station | 3 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 22646 · Regionale TRENORD 2630+ 9947+ Regionale Veloce 4111 | 1:18 PM Bergamo station | 8h10 | 9:28 PM Orvieto station | 3 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 22646 · Regionale TRENORD 2630 · Regionale 4113+ 9951 | On time 1:18 PM Bergamo station | 10h09 | 11:27 PM Orvieto station | 3 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 2230+ FRECCIAROSSA 9547+ Intercity 594 | 2:02 PM Bergamo station | 6h11 | 8:13 PM Orvieto station | 2 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 2230+ 9951+ Regionale 4113 | 2:02 PM Bergamo station | 9h25 | 11:27 PM Orvieto station | 2 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 2230+ 9951+ Regionale Veloce 4111 | 2:02 PM Bergamo station | 7h26 | 9:28 PM Orvieto station | 2 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 2230 · Regionale Veloce 4111+ 9947 | On time 2:02 PM Bergamo station | 7h26 | 9:28 PM Orvieto station | 2 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 22650 · Regionale TRENORD 2632+ 9951+ Regionale Veloce 4111 | 2:18 PM Bergamo station | 7h10 | 9:28 PM Orvieto station | 3 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 22650 · Regionale TRENORD 2632+ 9951+ Regionale 4113 | 2:18 PM Bergamo station | 9h09 | 11:27 PM Orvieto station | 3 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 22650 · Regionale TRENORD 2632+ 9955+ Regionale 4113 | 2:18 PM Bergamo station | 9h09 | 11:27 PM Orvieto station | 3 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 2232+ 9955+ Regionale 4113 | 3:02 PM Bergamo station | 8h25 | 11:27 PM Orvieto station | 2 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 2232+ 9951+ Regionale 4113 | 3:02 PM Bergamo station | 8h25 | 11:27 PM Orvieto station | 2 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 2232 · Regionale Veloce 4111+ 9951 | On time 3:02 PM Bergamo station | 6h26 | 9:28 PM Orvieto station | 2 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 22654 · Regionale TRENORD 2634+ 9955+ Regionale 4113 | 3:18 PM Bergamo station | 8h09 | 11:27 PM Orvieto station | 3 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 22654 · Regionale TRENORD 2634+ 9959+ Regionale 4113 | 3:18 PM Bergamo station | 8h09 | 11:27 PM Orvieto station | 3 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 2234+ FRECCIAROSSA 9555+ Regionale Veloce 4111 | 4:02 PM Bergamo station | 5h26 | 9:28 PM Orvieto station | 2 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 2234+ 9959+ Regionale 4113 | 4:02 PM Bergamo station | 7h25 | 11:27 PM Orvieto station | 2 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 2234 · Regionale 4113+ 9955 | 4:02 PM Bergamo station | 7h25 | 11:27 PM Orvieto station | 2 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 22658 · Regionale TRENORD 2636+ 9959+ Regionale 4113 | 4:18 PM Bergamo station | 7h09 | 11:27 PM Orvieto station | 3 transfers | |
Regionale TRENORD 2236+ 9959+ Regionale 4113 | 5:02 PM Bergamo station | 6h25 | 11:27 PM Orvieto station | 2 transfers | |
This is the last train of the day. | |||||
Find all the dates and times for this journey
Compare prices and tickets Bergamo to Orvieto by train, bus, or flight
Compare train, bus, and flight prices over the next three weeks. See the best deals at a glance, find the lowest fares, and choose the option that fits your budget.
Jun 20
Jun 21
Jun 22
Jun 23
Jun 24
Jun 25
Jun 26
Why should you book Bergamo to Orvieto trains with Omio?
Why book with Omio vs Regionale?
- Compare with other providers: On Omio, you can not only buy tickets for Regionale, but also compare tickets for the likes of Frecciarossa or Trenord to find the best option for your trip from Bergamo to Orvieto.
- Designed for International Travelers: Omio is in your language including 24/7 customer service and offers multiple payment options, including PayPal, credit cards, and bank transfer, in your preferred currency.
- Compare all your options: Omio allows you to compare Regionale with all available travel options, which are train, bus and flight to ensure you get the best deal for traveling from Bergamo to Orvieto.
Journey information
Overview: Train from Bergamo to Orvieto
Trains from Bergamo to Orvieto run on average 12 times per day, taking around 4h 46m. Cheap train tickets for this journey start at $29 (€24) if you book in advance.
The earliest train runs at 00:13, the last at 23:50. The fastest train covers the 238 miles (384 km) distance in 5h 22m.
Distance 238 miles (384 km) |
Average train duration 4h 46m |
Cheapest ticket price $29 (€24) |
Trains per day 12 |
Fastest train 5h 22m |
First train 12:13 AM |
Last train 11:50 PM |
Cheapest Month Aug |
Cheapest Day Sat |
High Season Jul - Sep |
Low Season Oct - Dec |
Busiest Day Mon |
Least Busy Day Mon |
Train companies: Regionale, Frecciarossa, Trenord from Bergamo to Orvieto trainsRegionale, Frecciarossa, Trenord trains will get you between Bergamo and Orvieto from $29 (€24). With over 1000 travel companies on Omio, you can find the best train times and tickets for your trip.
Regionale
Frecciarossa
Trenord
FAQs: Trains from Bergamo to Orvieto
Find answers to the most common questions about traveling from Bergamo to Orvieto by train. From journey times and ticket prices to direct connections, first and last departures, and even whether the route is scenic, our FAQs cover everything you need to plan your trip. Whether you’re looking for the fastest train, the cheapest option, or tips for making the most of your visit at Orvieto, this guide helps you travel smarter and with confidence.

popular train stations
Popular train stations from Bergamo to Orvieto
Most Bergamo to Orvieto trains use the Bergamo to Orvieto station pair, with some services arriving at Orvieto, Piazza Cahen (P.Cahen Funicolare). Use this guide to compare Bergamo and Orvieto train stations on this route, check city-centre transport, alongside checking practicalities like train station facilities and services.
Which Bergamo station do trains to Orvieto leave from?
Getting to Bergamo from Bergamo city centre
Bergamo train station facilities and services
Bergamo has practical services for this route, including Wifi, Lockers, Parking, Dining, ATM, Taxis, Accessibility, WC, Hotel, Lost and Found Office, Ticket Office, Bike Parking, Bike Rental, Car Rental, Information Desk, and Luggage Carts.
Food and drink
Food options include: Ristorante La Bruschetta, Osteria D'Ambrosio
Wi-Fi and ATMs
Free. ATMs are available in the train station.
Tickets and information
Ticket office support is available at Bergamo. Information desks are located in the main hall.
Luggage and lost property
Luggage storage is available at Bergamo. Lost and found is available at the station.
Parking, taxis and toilets
Available at Bergamo: Parking, Taxis, WC.
Bike and car services
Available at Bergamo: Bike Parking, Bike Rental, Car Rental.
Accessibility
Accessibility facilities are available at Bergamo: Elevators, ramps, restrooms.
Shops, hotels and contact
Nearby hotels include Hotel Excelsior San Marco, Mercure Bergamo Centro Palazzo Dolci, Hotel Cappello d'Oro.
Getting to Bergamo Ospedale from Bergamo city centre
Bergamo Ospedale is 2 km from Bergamo city centre. Public transport options include:
Bergamo Ospedale train station facilities and services
Bergamo Ospedale has practical services for this route, including Dining, Accessibility, and Bike Rental.
Food and drink
Food and drink options are available at Bergamo Ospedale.
Bike and car services
Available at Bergamo Ospedale: Bike Rental.
Accessibility
Accessibility facilities are available at Bergamo Ospedale: Elevators, ramps.
Which Orvieto station do trains from Bergamo arrive at?
Getting to Orvieto from Orvieto city centre
Orvieto is 1 km from Orvieto city centre. Public transport options include:
Orvieto train station facilities and services
Orvieto has practical services for this route, including Wifi, Lockers, Parking, Dining, Taxis, Accessibility, WC, Hotel, Lost and Found Office, Ticket Office, Bike Parking, Car Rental, Information Desk, and Luggage Carts.
Food and drink
Food options include: Trattoria del Moro Aronne, Ristorante Zeppelin
Wi-Fi and ATMs
Free.
Tickets and information
Ticket office support is available at Orvieto. Information desks are located in the main hall.
Luggage and lost property
Luggage storage is available at Orvieto. Lost and found is available at the station.
Parking, taxis and toilets
Available at Orvieto: Parking, Taxis, WC.
Bike and car services
Available at Orvieto: Bike Parking, Car Rental.
Accessibility
Accessibility facilities are available at Orvieto: Elevators, ramps.
Shops, hotels and contact
Nearby hotels include Hotel Duomo, Hotel Virgilio, Hotel Corso.
Orvieto, Piazza Cahen (P.Cahen Funicolare) train station facilities and services
Orvieto, Piazza Cahen (P.Cahen Funicolare) has practical services for this route, including Accessibility.
Accessibility
Accessibility facilities are available at Orvieto, Piazza Cahen (P.Cahen Funicolare).
Most popular train connections from Bergamo
More options for your journey from Bergamo to Orvieto
Here are some other resources that might have the information you need
